In which I have some early morning thoughts on religion

[palmedfire]

I'd like to say before I get too in to this that I consider myself a decently spiritual person. I'm still hesitant to full-on call myself Christian, for complicated reasons I'll get into later. But I believe in God, etc etc. I went to church (Methodist) sporadically while growing up, and was Confirmed in that tradition, though I'll admit I did so because my parents expected me to. I've developed most of my religious/spiritual opinions on my own rather than through any formal teaching. Just so we all know where I'm coming from.

Part the first: Atheist Zelots or "Show me on the doll where religion touched you"

So, on this forum I'm on, there are two, very adamant atheists and several less adamant atheists. I have little problem with this. I've always been of the "Everybody can have different beliefs and still get along" opinion. I'm not going to shove my beliefs down your throat, I'd kinda like the same courtesy please. Religion doesn't come up very often, since they're fanforums, but it does on rare-but-regular occasions. And then I start to get... uncomfortable. Because the prevailing though from many of these folk is that if you believe in God, you are somehow incapable of believing in science and scientific theory. Like, if you believe in God, then you must believe that evolution is complete bullshit, and so on. And it gets tiring time after time to say "I don't see the two as incompatible". Honestly, we live in an amazing, complicated universe. And I think it's amazing how the human mind has plumbed, or at least attempted to plumb so many of it's mysteries. What I don't think is that humans will ever be able to understand the whole of it, and that uncertainty, that unknowable is God's purview.

My major problem with there is one poster, who is admittedly a rather bitter, snarky, spiteful person overall, tends to take any opportunity to spout off about how religion is nothing more than a pack of lies, and responsible for all the evils in the world. And that those who believe in religion are nothing but stupid, delusional fucks. It's very hostile, and for reasons unknown to me, the board mods seem very hesitant to take him to task for what amounts to repeated group attacks. Then again, the mods tend to respond to very little -.- But I find his posts insulting, and they tend to shake me up a bunch, even though I know he's like that, and I need to let it roll off my back. I'm good about not responding at least. I know better than getting into that sort of a argument... I just wish I could keep myself away from reading threads that are likely to bring out such vitrol. But it tends to come up in every science-based topic, and I like reading those because there are a couple of members on the boards who are actual scientists, doing some of this breakthrough research. Feh.

Part the Second: The perils of labels and living in Bible-thumper country

When asked or talking about religion, I tend to self-identify as a spiritualist, coming from a Christian tradition rather than straight up saying I'm Christian. There are several reasons for this. The first being that honestly, considering the number of Christian denominations and how widely they vary in views on so many issue, in my opinion the generic 'Christian' label tells very little. And as that I do not attend church regularly, and do not, currently, identify strongly with a particular denomination, I think it's easier and more honest to call myself a spiritualist. Especially since most of my current beliefs are based on personal soul-searching rather than any particular teaching. Though I am actually working on reading through the Bible - the whole thing, not just cherry-picking passages. Which reminds me, I need to pick up some small post-it flags.

My other hesitancy on taking the Christian label comes from where I went to college, and to a slightly lesser degree where I live now. I went to college at Sweet Briar, which is a great school, very open minded etc etc. It is, however, close to Lynchburg Virginia, home of the (now-deceased) Reverand Jerry Falwell and his pet "University" Liberty. Having that particular brand of crazy nearby made a lot of us rather... hesitant to admit or discuss religion outside of the classroom setting. I had done my teenage rebelling against religion in high school, and thus it was in college where I was slowly redeveloping my relationship with God and such. In that sort of environment though, I was very hesitant to call myself anything that might share even the slightest hint of a connection to the crazies.

I'm not quite that skittish now, but I still live in Bible-belt country, and it seems most people around me who call themselves Christians are the very conservative Bible-thumping kind. The ones who, to be honest are what the forum poster I talked about earlier rails against. I know I shouldn't be afraid of labels, that if I was serious about it, I'd be willing to be the positive example. But really, on a day-to-day basis, religion impacts who I am and how I present to the world very little, so it's hard to see the need.

I this I shall wrap this up for now. I have other thoughts of course, but they can wait

Comments

[zehavit_lamasu]

Always amuses me and saddens me when atheist feel they have a duty to bash religion.

I identify as a Jewish Atheist which to most will seem like a contradiction which is fine because I think contradictions define the human condition rather well.

And I will be the first to admit that religion touches me in MANY MANY places. Off the top of my head - Yesterday I listened to Bach and read the poetry of Hafiz and Rabbi Solomon Ibn Gabirol ... WHAM! The three Abrahamic religions touching me to the very core in one instant.


End of argument - saying religion is nothing but evil make me snigger. I am not religious and I love religion. I will not waft on and on on your blog but I really feel what you are saying... I think...

[palmedfire]

I really kinda wish it was just on the one forum. But I see it elsewhere. There's one RPG designer's blog I had to stop reading because while his posts on his games were great, they were interspersed with these really annoying, bashing diatribes. I don't have the time for such stuff in my life.

And yes, contradictions are part of the human condition.

You may always feel free to waft on and on. I enjoy these sorts of discussions. Assuming they're held with sane folk. Which you are. Mostly ;)

[colorlessgreenideas]

I can relate, and I'm sorry you have to read such bullshit on fan forums. Not that offensive rants like that have a place anywhere in outside very small circles of one's own personal friends. And maybe not even then. Personally, I've found that my religious beliefs and activities are more controversial than my sexuality. But then, maybe I just look more like a lesbian than like a Christian/religious person. After all, my boss did tell me once "You don't seem like a church-going sort of person."

[masahi]

Religion has been a part of my life since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. My parents were missionaries to Israel of all place, my grandfather is a minister, my other grandparents were lay preachers. I lived utterly immersed in it until I was 18, went to uni and developed a mind of my own. I don't go to Church anymore, and I tend to avoid big Church-related events because it really does feel like being beaten over the head by it.

Like you, I hesitate to use the term Christian. There are so many factions and so much infighting that it upsets me to think that this is a religion based on mutual respect and love. I think Jesus was a cool guy with radical and good ideas to live by, and I will cheerfully admit that he is one of the big role models in my life.

To me, religion is something deeply personal and how you choose to express/believe it should not be based on how well you dress up to go to your religious organisation of choice or how many raffles you have done to raise money for said foundation. If you are a good person, and you let your actions speak for you, there is no need to force your belief down someone else's throat.